'Entitled' - by Andrew Lownie

On this episode of #AudioBookClub:

‘Their trousers all fell down!”

Steve Phillips and Matthew Layton present #AudioBookClub, a weekly podcast that reviews and recommends audiobooks.

On this week’s episode we are casting an ear over Andrew Lownie’s joint biography of The Duke and Duchess of York.

Entitled

The Rise and Fall of the House of York

A: Andrew Lownie

N: Andrew Lownie

R: 14-08-25

L: 11 hrs and 40 mins

P: William Collins

#Biographies & #Memoirs

Please get involved in the conversation

@SteveKPhillips and @WhingeingPom

#AudioBookClub.net

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On the next episode of #AudioBookClub:

A Particularly Nasty Case

A: Adam Kay

N: Andy Serkis

R: 28-08-25

L: 10 hrs and 9 mins

P: Orion

#Literature #Fiction

TRANSCRIPT

Steve Phillips and Matthew Layton discuss Audiobook Club on this podcast

Matthew Layton: Audiobook Club with Steve Phillips and Matthew Layton.

Steve Phillips: On this episode of Audiobook Club. The grand old Duke of York was once a very naughty boy.

Speaker C: Andrew quickly grew into the classic spoil brat. Aware of his high rank from an early age. Arrogant and overbearing, he would order staff about and according to one member of staff, be a bloody nuisance. Even the Queen described him as a bit of a handful. He was fond of practical jokes, hiding knives and forks when a footman was laying the table, tying the shoelaces of centuries, teasing his grandmother and reputedly an Anglican bishop at Balmoral as well, with a whoopee cushion, putting itching powder into his mother's bed, turning the aerial at Buckingham palace so she could not watch the racing at sundown, and putting washing up liquid in the palace pool. A valuable silver tray was used as a toboggan for sliding down palace stairs, and he would pedal furiously up and down the long red carpeted corridors on his tricycle. Almost from the beginning, he felt a strong sense of entitlement with fawning staff, lavish homes, chauffeured cars, and showed himself to be wilful, exuberant, gregarious, undisciplined and aggressive, and possessed of a limited attention span. Evelyn Muir Bell, who worked at Windsor, between 1973 and 1995, remembered him as the most troublesome royal, a tiresome little shit.

Matthew Layton: Audiobook Club with Steve Phillips and Matthew Layton.

Steve Phillips: Hello and welcome to Audiobook Club, the podcast about audiobooks that loves pizza express and sports. Sweats like a pig. Matt. Hi, Matt.

Matthew Layton: Hello, Steve. I love making you say things.

Steve Phillips: Yes. Yeah, I just sight read that.

Matthew Layton: Still fun. Well, welcome back.

Steve Phillips: yeah, well, welcome, welcome back, welcome back. Here we are, Season three. I did want to say a welcome back to Audiobook Club, where this week we're going through a lot of princely sums. But you came up with something much more highbrow than I ever did.

Matthew Layton: yes, well, that's my job, isn't it? No, it's more low brow. I'm nothing but, but filthy low brow and smutty. oh, speaking of which, that leads me, on to another little clip I prepared that I didn't think I was gonna get the chance to play, but write up your strasse. Here is a, list of the guests from the wedding of the Duke and Duchess of York, or Prince Andrew and Sarah Ferguson, as she was until that point. that I thought you, you might enjoy.

Speaker C: Almost 2,000 guests had filled the abbey, among them, Nancy Reagan, the racing driver, Jackie Stewart, the comedian Billy Connolly and his actress wife Pamela Stevenson. Elton John and his wife Renata, Michael and Shakira Kane, Barry Humphries, the American comedian Joan Rivers and the actor Anthony Andrews as well as foreign royals, aristocrats and the great and the good.

Matthew Layton: How's that for Elton John and his wife Renata? That dates it, doesn't it?

Steve Phillips: That's going back a little bit, isn't it?

The Rise and Fall of the House of York by Andrew Lowney

Well you may have noticed there dear listener, that this week we're casting an ear over entitled the Rise and Fall of the House of York by Andrew Lowney, narrated by the author, came out a couple of weeks ago as we record it's a stonking 11 hours and 40 minutes and published by William Collins and ah, this is fair to say, has set the. Well has set the. The audio book club world alight. It's the bestseller at the minute and and I'd be very remiss if we didn't cast an ear over the House of York in this week's episode.

Matthew Layton: It came to my attention because a couple of weeks ago, just as the book was being released, I think the Release date was 18th of August. I'll have a look at that in a minute and confirm. but Andrew Lanley who I'd never heard of before was on many of the things that I listen to basically tearing the Duke of York a new one. And you and I having worked at the BBC, we know how these things work. If you want to plug your book you would better on Radio 5 live or BBC Breakfast or you know a newsy type programme. You've got to have a newsline. And of course the Epstein story that refuses to go away from Trump is linked to this. so the timing must have been magnificent For Lonely and his publishers that was great. So that's why I was drawn to the book. It didn't turn out to be what I expected but yeah, do expand.

Steve Phillips: Do you want to expand on that now or should we park that for a little bit?

Matthew Layton: Let's park that for a little bit but let's start.

Chelsea Bridge is doing a biography about Duke and Duchess of York

So this whole book is about the Duke and Duchess of York and their story from And even it tells both of their childhood stories as you heard from that clip in the beginning. What I've done Steve, is I'm going to ask you a question and it is her first question is have you read the book?

Steve Phillips: yes, pretty much.

Matthew Layton: Okay, yeah, that doesn't matter. It's almost better if you're not. So I put in the script if you scroll down to the bit where it says bance, I've given you a little visual guide. Oh, they're all there off the top of your head. What do you think of when you see. Just use it as a tool. Pretend you haven't. Pretend to the listener not giving you basically a four stage crutch. Yeah. What do you think of. We think of Prince Andrew.

Steve Phillips: Steve, did you say crutch? Sorry, the line's very bad at the moment.

Matthew Layton: Get off with it.

Steve Phillips: well, yes, I mean this is.

Matthew Layton: Well, no. What do you, what do you think, what do you think when I say Prince Andrew is what I'm trying to ask?

Steve Phillips: Well, I think you summed it up in these four pictures. Shall I explain what these four pictures are?

Matthew Layton: No. Pretend you haven't seen the four pictures.

Steve Phillips: No.

Matthew Layton: And, but I'm just giving you a little visual. The four pictures that I put up there do not exist. Just I thought they might remind you of. They might trigger something in your memory and some wise words and perhaps a historical overview or, or you can just describe the pictures. Whichever you want to do really.

Steve Phillips: Well, you know me, I'm nothing if not base and simplistic. But yes, essentially, essentially Prince Andrew, the second son of the Queen. Doing a biography about Prince Andrew here. If anyone's, if no one's heard of Prince Andrew, you've come to the right place, I'll explain for you. But yeah, yeah, second son of the Queen and you know, he had a career, well I thought a distinguished career in the Royal Navy. He knocked it out the park in the Falklands and so on, got married to Sarah Ferguson, got slightly unmarried to Sarah Ferguson and then just went absolutely nuts everywhere. And frankly this book turned out, well, I don't know, a book in sort of. It's a game of two halves really, or quarters actually, because it's a double biography of both Sarah and Andrew. and it dives both into the financial sector and the private life sector and the behaviour sector and the financial sector. I don't know about you but, but it just felt like, like five and a half hour reading out of invoices.

Matthew Layton: Do you know what? that is exactly where I was going to conclude this episode. But I also remember that not everybody remembers Prince, Andrew the way that we do. In fact, you made my point in that for a British listener, he's ubiquitous. For an American listener who vaguely knows of the royal family and has, has realised that Prince Andrew is linked to the, the Epstein files that supposedly don't exist or do, let's not get into that. For somebody like that, those four images that I sent you would mean nothing. So for me, yeah, you're right. Well, I remember him in a naval uniform going to the Falklands War. And that was about the time of Royal wedding number one, early 80s, where Prince Charles married Diana. About five years later, we had another royal wedding. When I was a kid, I thought these happened all the time. And he married Sarah Ferguson, who, we were told that, and a shiny redhead, you know, beautiful wedding, whatever, big ceremony. And we were told, though, various things. She was, she was a bit common, even though, I mean, I'm pretty posh, but I think she's even posher than me. But the whole idea that a woman who didn't conform to the rules, liked to drink and a smoke and, and, was cheeky. Even though she went to very posh boarding school. Her father played polo and her whole life from this book at that time, seems she doesn't leave the Chelsea, Chelsea or Kensington for about six years, whether it be living. I think she, she had a flat the other side of Battersea Bridge once, but she's always in the poshest parts of town and has ridiculous connections that led to her being in the room. But the weird thing was she was considered a bit too common for the royals. Do you remember that bit?

Steve Phillips: Yeah, really vaguely. I was quite young then, I guess, but, But yes, that's what I do remember, the sort of the, the talk around it, but I think that was that at the time, it was very endearing, wasn't it? You know, a bit more. A bit more like the people, despite everything you've just said there.

Matthew Layton: Yeah, but, but that was it. I mean, I think we were glad that the, the royal establishment were pissed off because this woman didn't necessarily answer the questions in the prim and proper ways that one would be expected to as a royal. And then after that, Andrew just, you know, he's, he's in the background. He hasn't really done anything iconic, so since flying that helicopter. Hadn't done anything iconic since flying that helicopter and marrying that woman. And the next time he really comes on the map is when the BBC's Emily Maitlis interviewed him on Newsnight about his links to dead paedophile Jeffrey Epstein. And basically he, he thought he'd done all right, but in the cold light of day when the interview aired, it was an embarrassment to the Royal family. He was dismissed from active duty. And, yeah, he, he now lives in disgrace I think that. I think that's a fair up some of how. How we as Brits take for granted that we feel and know about him. But remember, some people will be hearing this for the first time. So.

This is the first royal biography that we have reviewed on the podcast

So what do you remember when we had trouble, I tried to get people's opinions when I was living in Australia on the book Colditz, and nobody knew what Colditz was. So I think those very iconic moments are something that we take for granted, if you see what I mean. Yeah, that we know.

Steve Phillips: Yeah. I mean, these four pictures, you've, you've. You've popped up on here, Navy Marriage, that. The infamous photo that sparks all this stuff. And the interview, the Newsnight interview, really, in terms of the public eye, you didn't often see him being interviewed, but a lot of the royals are like that. the interesting thing about this, this is the very first sort of royal biography that we have reviewed.

Matthew Layton: No, incorrect, incorrect.

Steve Phillips: Oh, apart from the David Mitchell one. Yeah. The unruly.

Matthew Layton: No, no. Well, that. Oh, my God, it turns out we're royalists. no, we did the Duke of Edinburgh's one by Giles Brandreth just after he died. And. And there are bits in this where the same story is being told from a different perspective. And the, the thing that got me, in this book, Andrew Lamley had, there is journalistic rigour, but you and I have been through journalism training. So he spoke, he. He asked for contributions from 3,000 people. According to the preface of the book, he managed to speak to 300 of them. I'm not sure that I agree with the quality of some of his data, but the key moment for me was when he said, and in an open carriage behind the bride and groom on the way to the wedding in 1986, the father of the groom and the stepmother of the bride travelled, together, possibly the first time they'd been together since they had an affair in 1959.

Steve Phillips: Wow, I missed that bit.

Matthew Layton: I'm glad your reaction to that is the same as mine, because you and I know you can't say if you leave out the allegedly or there was rumoured to and just go, they had an affair in 1959. Even if Brandreth knew that at the time he wrote his Duke of Edinburgh book, and which we recommend it, you can listen back to that episode, if you like. Audiobookclub.net we know you need two independent, verifiable sources before you say something as confidently as that.

Steve Phillips: And this interesting thing, right, he's been doing the media rounds pretty Heavily, this author, and I don't think anyone's questioned him on it from, from the interviews I've heard. I have him on the News Agents podcast, for example. Example, where actually, you know, they, they, they really kind of kick the tires, as it were, on his. You know, on the veracity of some of the stuff there. And how can you prove this? And how can you prove that? But no one's really brought up that line at all.

Matthew Layton: Well, you know what? I'll tell you why, as confirmed, when we had Jenny Draper, on the show Maverick, her book Mavericks, she said it was really nice on social media. After she said it was really nice to go on a programme where someone had read. Actually read my book. And the difference is, Steve, we actually read the books.

Steve Phillips: Yeah. Yeah, you definitely do. Sometimes I run out of road, but you definitely do, mate.

Matthew Layton: Well, that's because you have.

Steve Phillips: I don't know how you do this, by the way. You do this three or four times, like. Yeah, no, I read it. Yeah, I read it twice. I was. I think it was like 14 hours long. Where did you get.

Matthew Layton: Because I have no other life. I claim I'm retired, but I'm actually unemployed.

Steve Phillips: And that's dedicated to the books.

Matthew Layton: And that's how we are, number 42 in the top 100 UK book podcast.

Steve Phillips: Yeah, I saw the rating. I'm not happy about that. What happened there? Well, we haven't been around for a little while. It's probably it. They had. They tend to go on long sabbaticals in between seasons.

Matthew Layton: They lose their mojo. Leighton has gone off for another one of his, spiritual treks, microdosing mushrooms and wandering around the desert again. He'll be back in about September. It's my right as an Australian man to go walkabout.

Steve Phillips: Absolutely right, mate. Till the water bill arrives. Quite right, yeah.

Matthew Layton: Three step process.

Steve Phillips: Yeah, Three steps.

Andrew Lowney has one of those surnames that you can pronounce incorrectly

Matthew Layton: We started talking about the author and I think the author is going to be, I've got a lot to say about him. I think you. From what you said earlier, you have too, and I think it's the same thing.

Steve Phillips: Yeah, indeed. I mean, yeah. Do you want to give us a lowdown on low. Down on, lounge? I don't. It's. Again, this has been. It's been quite different. He said his surname for an hour. He's got one of those surnames that you can pronounce pronounced, very wrongly or very correctly. Is it loudly or loney?

Matthew Layton: yes, you've, said that now. And you may Be worried. But I listened to him loads of times and I think he said Andrew Lowney. That's in the back of my head. Anyway, I, I will go through and reinsert the correct pronunciation. if I make a mistake, that'll.

Steve Phillips: Be a tight edit. Yep.

Matthew Layton: Yeah.

We talk about the author and whether it contributes to the experience

Okay, so we're gonna do your three step process where first of all, we talk about the author because the book wouldn't be there if it weren't for the author. Then we talk about the book, and what we think of that in a conventional book review kind of way. And then of course, because we are evangelists for the audiobook, we talk about the performance, the delivery, the production of the audiobook and whether it contributes to the experience or takes away from it. So the author is Andrew Lowney. He was born on, in November in 1961 in Kenya. He was brought up in Bermuda. It says even though he was brought up in Bermuda, he also somehow managed to go to Westminster School, and studied at Magdalen College, Cambridge. He got his doctorate.

Steve Phillips: It's strange how this happens, isn't it? Because basically the average kid, when growing up, you tend to live in the same catchment area as the school.

Matthew Layton: Yeah.

Steve Phillips: And, except if you're, I guess, a certain, you know, of a certain background.

Matthew Layton: Well, hold on. So what do we looking here? We're looking at. So there's Bermuda, Ken Kenya and Bermuda. They're not oil, are they? They're just corruption, and Triangle. So he has, written a number of books, none of which I have encountered before. the topics of said books, include Stalin's Englishman, Guy Burgess, the, Mountbatten's Their Lives and Loves, and then a book about the Duchess and Duke of Windsor, which is about how they got exiled. This is interesting to me. Lowney also wrote a literary guide to, Edinburgh and has edited several volumes of John Buchan's works. I'd like to do. John Buchan is a man who wrote 39 steps and was kind of the, in one of the inspirations, for James Bond. So he now lives in London near Westminster Abbey, apparently. So, yeah. I mean he is 64 years old. He sounds posh. He comes from quite a posh background and, you know, he's an academic. He's got a, he's got a doctorate, which I think was basically just him. Him doing. What's it called? What's, what's the word? I'm thinking of Steve. Moonlighting. He was moonlighting. So. Or he was so. He was. He strangely the, His Doctoral thesis had the same name as his 2016 book that was the Stalin's Englishman one. So, you know, take that what you will. He's also chairman of basically the organisation, the Honourable Company of Biographers. So he very much sees himself in that mould and is part of an organisation that brings biographers together. They have tea and biscuits and have a chat. I should imagine so. So he's, he's very much a support supporter of that form. I think we'll come back to the way he speaks in the bit in part three where we talk about what the book sounds like. But I think it, I think in terms of accent and tone, he's not too far away from the world of this book. Book, would you agree?

Steve Phillips: yes, well, I wouldn't have expected it to be narrated by Billy Bragg, this one.

Matthew Layton: No. Or indeed Steve Phillips.

Steve Phillips: Or indeed Steve Phillips, yes. With my, Essex background.

Steve Phillips reads us the blurb from the back of a book

okay, that, well, you join to do the blurb. The blurb section I love. Okay, here we go.

Matthew Layton: Right, can we. No, no, can we give it a bit more build up? Because this is the only reason that all of the listeners to the number 42 best book podcast in the UK tune in, for the dulcet malif tones of Steve Phillips as he reads us the blurb from the back of the book.

Steve Phillips: Last 30 seconds. Our listeners aren't going to get back, mate. I also appreciate the intention behind it. Very, very, very kind of you indeed.

Matthew Layton: Get on with it.

This searing biography of Prince Andrew crackles with scandals

Steve Phillips: Okay. Makes Prince Harry's spare look positively restrained, says Sunday Times Daily Express. A, jaw dropping account of arrogance, financial incontinence, greed and indeed entitlement. And BBC News. This searing biography of Prince Andrew crackles with scandals. The first joint biography of the Duke and Duchess of York and the first full biography of either of them by renowned royal biographer and literary agent Andrew loney. Drawing on four years of research, numerous FOI requests and interviews with over 100 people who have never spoken before, the book traces the lives of the Queensland second son and his ex wife through their childhoods, courtship, marriage, divorce, careers and royal and charitable activities. Still living in the same house, they claim to be the happiest divorced couple in the world. The book investigates the reality of their relationship and their love lives. It charts Andrew's record in the Falklands, his business activities, and reveals details of how the couple have been able financially to sustain their extravagant lifestyles. And it also recounts the full story of the York's links with Jeffrey Epstein, chronicling their lives in parallel. The picture that emerges is of a spoiled prince unable to connect and a duchess pushed by her insecurities into a desperate need to maintain the attention her royal status brought. Rigorously researched and packed full of revelations, this is eye watering biography at its best.

Speaker C: Both a black comedy and a tragedy, it shows how a man born into a prominent family with responsibilities as well as privileges, found himself unable to fulfil the basic requirements of an ancient role. And how the jolly young woman who married him succumbed to every possible temptation on offer. It is a story as old as time, but played out in our time. The charismatic and handsome Prince Andrew, who returned from the Falklands in 1982 a war hero, is now in his mid-60s, a prisoner in his own house, a scorned figure relieved of royal duties, who spends his days playing golf and watching television.

Steve Phillips: Yeah, I mean I really got into it in the first sort of chapter or say first chapter. It was very much in the parts and the way the audio, the audiobook is. I mean they're about an hour long or something. Even more than that, some of the chapters. And it just felt like it was, it was once, once I got through the childhood and the, the wedding and then it got into the spending. It was just constantly talk of a helicopter for 43000 pounds, a new computer for 61000 pounds that cost 61000 pounds as well. And you know, it was just ended up just being a massive shopping list, in terms of, from a listening point of view. It was just, it was so sort of, you became desensitised. The amounts of money that was being spent on and what it was being spent on, you know, you just became like, oh, it's another cost, it's another cost. It just, it was so shocking. It became just normal to listen to my, my, my.

Matthew Layton: I'm so glad that you feel the same as I do about the list thing, because I struggled with that as well. But the clip we played at the top that talks about Andrew using whoopee cushions, itching powder and putting dish soap in the pool. I enjoyed that bit. Eventually, although I started off going, this is that bloke who had a journalistic rigour who was tearing the Prince Andrew a new one on the radio two weeks ago. This is not.

Steve Phillips: Whose side did you take in all this, all this tomfoolery and J Pri is him as a kid. Are you on his side or were you on the poor put upon servants side who had to clear up his mess after? I was thinking, you absolute little tearaway what do you think of the people who've got to clear up your mess?

Matthew Layton: I'll be honest with you, Steve. and my feeling as this started was, well, the bloody hell am m I reading this for? I wanted journalistic rigour. It strikes me it's a little unlikely that this. A kid on his trike would have got itching powder and a whoopee cushion from, you know. Where did he go? The joke shop. I doubt he was allowed out the palace, so it didn't ring true for me. It was a great story. Yeah, but. But it sounds to me when you. When you think he said he spoke to 300 people. I mean, one of those people and this irritated me. So it was somebody he had dinner with once in 1986. You know, that's a. Some of it. And you just get the feeling that that story is a collected memory. Memory. Where's he gonna get it? He's six years old. Where's he going to get itching powder from? Where's he gonna get a whoopee cushion from? If some grown up in a position.

Steve Phillips: Oh, no, no, hang on.

Steve Phillips: Joke shot by post.

Matthew Layton: Is that why. Is that why they have a royal warrant explains it.

Steve Phillips: Right, yeah. By roll appointment. Joke shot by post.

Matthew Layton: Yeah. Was it in the back of the.

Steve Phillips: Beano, your Royal Highness, do you think he was the. The royal woman? Puppy cushions, sir. Yeah.

Speaker C: Thanks.

Matthew Layton: Yeah. Sirs. X. Sir's X ray specs have arrived.

Steve Phillips: Sir's itching powder. Yes.

Matthew Layton: Yeah. So look, and again, that's the lovely. That's what you want his childhood to be like. You want him to be a scamp. so, and again, as someone who's had kids, myself as a parent, you don't get much choice as to what they come out like. and also, it fits with the image where he, you know, his siblings and. And Charles, he's in contrast to them. And perhaps portraying him in that light is easier because the other two are broadly, seen as a bit more goody goody. So he's someone different. And I thought, well, why am I. This is clearly confected out of some people's Ms. look, he might have done either the itching powder or the whoopee cushion while riding down the halls on his tricycle and. And tobogganing on a precious silver tray. But I doubt he did all of them. And it sounds like. It sounds like a story told by.

M. D. writes about royal scandals in new book

It sounds like a fairy tale, doesn't it? So that part is going. Well, this isn't the book I signed up for. And then gradually I started enjoying it as, as he grew up and he got into his bachelor years and when we were introduced to Sarah Ferguson and her family, I started going, oh, this is a lovely story about fully human, rounded, fully rounded human beings and I'm not sure whether I like them or not. Give me more of this. And at that point it switches back and as you say, becomes somebody reading a number of lists.

Steve Phillips: I had that towards the end of the book and you really get into the kind of the meat of it, you know, the, the disgrace, him being. His social media accounts being deleted, his, you know, the, the royal website being rewritten and, and all the rest of it. And then he went into, he just, I think, I think, I think he actually said finance. He just announced the word finance and I was like, oh, it's just business. D. Which, which if you're into that stuff then that's your bit, isn't it? That's. Yeah, you know, you'd be really into that stuff. But I'm, Yeah, I guess I'm just not. But it just became another sort of just long list of figures and just bad stuff happening and you know, cover ups and all the rest of it. And it was just, it just became a little bit, I don't know. We know by that point if you're towards the end of the book, I don't think you're so engaged with the financial scandals that much any more because you're, you're thinking my goodness, the worst thing has happened to him. You know, he's absolutely gone down in disgrace and then we find out about more business dealings and you're thinking, well that's kind of a headline grabbing in my head anyway.

Matthew Layton: Okay, before we go on. I am a father of two 13 year old children and part of the reason that he has fallen apart is because it is alleged that convicted paedophile Jeffrey Epstein paid a 17 year old to have sex with Prince Andrew. So that is, that is the heart of the matter and the important bit and the terrible thing. and he also, he's almost in trouble as much for the terrible cover up and the way they've made films about what a disaster his interview with Emily Mateless was. But before I go on, I want to emphasise that I, I do not take lightly the notion of 17 year old children, be. Be they of legal age depending on jurisdiction, but being paid to give m. To do. To. It's, it's, it's practically statutory rape is What I would say, but that aside, this book and those lists of he took a helicopter ride that cost £4,000 when the train was only 78 minutes and, and cost £120. that book didn't. That part did not translate well to the audiobook form format, I don't think. M. And again, the, the business things, you know, the. And times have changed and I say this about the business stuff and the helicopter stuff. the section of the book that was about how he had used his access to important people because he was a royal, to subsequently find a way to make his own money. I went, yeah, that's what you do. It's like how. How many people do you know who have quit one job to go and work for someone they met in the course of doing their previous. For their next job that they'd met at a meeting, at a conference in the job before? I think that's fine. And he's unlike the rest of us, he can't go and get a job as an accountant and he has to pay for private security if he. If he leaves the house or indeed leaves the country as a. So I felt that some of that was. I think it took, I think not only was it boring, it sounded vindictive on the part of the. The author who's not quite posh enough to be directly in those circles, but who has a copy of who's who and is prepared to phone people from who's who decides who to phone by looking it up in who's who. so I feel that that bit. In fact, you know what, before let's, let's go on to the delivery of the audiobook and it is rather strange that the pickeye clip, but the clip I picked, for us to listen to is an illustration of that use of lists, but in a different context.

Andrew reportedly slept with thousands of women while travelling as a trade ambassador

Speaker C: At Gordonson, Andrew had been given the nickname Randy Andy and it has stuck with him throughout his life. He's supposed to have slept with over a thousand women and has never had any trouble attracting girlfriends. According to a friend, he. He doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke and he doesn't take drugs and never has. But sex is his big thing in life. He was known as Randy Andy for a reason when he was younger and it's never really stopped. Travelling all over the world as a UK trade ambassador and for other royal duties has given him access to some beautiful women and he's taken full advantage. Journalist Ian Halperin claimed he shagged porn stars, actresses, models Athletes, politicians and bartenders at clubs. There's even a long standing rumour that he was having an affair with one of his household staff members when he was still married to Sarah Ferguson, the Duchess of York. Among the women whose names have been linked to his are Kabina Beaudet Wellman, whose mother was supposedly one of Prince Philip's lovers, the former supermodel Christina Estrada, the American socialite Cornelia Guest, the CNN anchor Felicia Taylor, Michael Caine's daughter Nikki, the Macedonian pianist, model and actress in Impossible. Maya, Dockish, the skincare entrepreneur, Amanda Cronin, the fashion designers Alexandra Weston and Amanda Wakely, and the fashion entrepreneur, Maxine Hargreaves Adams.

Michael Caine recently released a chill out music CD called Caned

Matthew Layton: Can you imagine? So one other person's been mentioned twice in this, and that's Michael Caine and his wife Shakira were at the wedding and then can you imagine, you've bought them a lovely hostess trolley. And how does he, how does he pay you back?

Steve Phillips: Yeah, yeah, that's, I mean, I'm, I mean, yeah. I mean it'd be great to have Michael Caine on the podcast to see what he thought about that.

Matthew Layton: Well, I don't think. We don't. I don't think that'd be our first question. he did. I do. I'm very proud owner of, Apparently Michael Caine, with his time in the south of France, likes to sit back in a linen suit, have a large whiskey and listen to chill out music. So this was discovered by an entrepreneur, on Enterprising record company and I own the CD of Michael Caine selected Chill out tracks.

Steve Phillips: Oh, fantastic.

Matthew Layton: It's called Caned.

Steve Phillips: Caned. Is it really called Caned?

Matthew Layton: It's really cool. Caned. Yeah.

Steve Phillips: Oh, that's class. You know what, he's right up there with Christopher Lee when he, when he was a. He's uncovered to be a massive metalhead and release a metal album.

Matthew Layton: I don't remember that.

Steve Phillips: Oh, yeah, Charlemagne. Yeah, I'll send you that.

Matthew Layton: I did frighten Christopher Lee once when I was working at jlr, but that's another story for another day coming back.

Steve Phillips: You frighter. Hang on.

Matthew Layton: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Steve Phillips: You frightened Christopher Lee.

Matthew Layton: Yes.

Steve Phillips: Wow. The, the, the, the iconic face of Hammer films.

Matthew Layton: He, he came in for interview when I was working as a broadcast assistant@GLR, right in the beginning. So this is back in this time in 1998 or something like that. And he was pretty old even then. And I walked him into what, effectively? Well, you, you worked in that building, you know, between the two studios there Is the. The, green room slash bits where the producers sit and talk. He came in there, sat him down. He started quoting a Pushkin poem in Russian out of nowhere for some reason.

Steve Phillips: Wow.

Matthew Layton: And the great thing was that at the time, and I couldn't do it now, I knew what the next line was in Russian, so I just said it to him. Freaked the out of him. You expect a boo mother. Oh, wow. He wasn't expecting that.

Steve Phillips: I bet he wasn't. Oh, man, all these stories, they'll keep these little gems sometimes surface, don't they?

Steve says he was impressed with the narration in Bliss

Now, the narration.

Matthew Layton: Yes.

Steve Phillips: were you impressed with the narration?

Matthew Layton: Let's re. Let's re establish this. Yes. I think he's the right person to have written the book. And. And, you know, for us, here at audiobook club, the yellow sticker that says read by the author is not always a positive. But in this case, I feel that he, had the right voice for the job. I would describe him as a competent narrator. and that is. It was mainly competent. But my feeling, and I may need to go back and listen to the book again. and I think I might, at some point on a train journey where I want to nod off, I might put it on again. I really loved the bits that were hit at the beginning that were history that we remember.

Steve Phillips: Yes.

Matthew Layton: Written by an adult who was an adult at the time. I was a child about adults who were adults when we were children. And perhaps you and I didn't necessarily have the insight we would have now watching them get married or Selena. I watched Selena Scott interviewing him in their supposed flirtation that made headlines in the papers at the time. Absolute damp squib. Nothing that absolutely entirely sexless. so, yeah, interesting to have a perspective on stuff that, you know, the hum of being British gives you the opinion that the BBC, the tabloid newspapers and stuff have given us of him over the years. I love that beginning bit. I loved, you know, little bits like the. The guest list to the royal wedding, stuff like that. I liked the stories of him at Gordonstone not attending all the classes, but going up to the top of the cliff with his protection officer and shooting cans off a brick wall. I loved that. And it painted a really interesting picture, of it and made it like a fairy tale. it made it a compelling listen. But we lost all of that because he had to put the journalistic integrity stuff in. And when you listen to that list that we've just played of people he shagged, you'll notice he stumbles over a Couple of the names, yeah. and my theory is. And. And it's just a mad theory, Steve, so forgive me. The feeling I got from this book is I love the beginning and then got bored by the end. Partly because the reading of Bliss and I think the energy of the narrator. It would not surprise me if the publisher sent him to the studio and a senior producer was there at the time to help them get underway. And then later in the book, the senior producer said, oh, you're all right, you've got this. This will be fine. We leave Junior tape, button pressing, person in charge, and you go and sit in the screen. Ah. Because there wasn't. There are bits, even in that small clip, where if I were producing, I would ask them, and I'm not good enough, to be an audiobook producer, as we've previously discussed on this channel, but there are bits where I'd have gone, no, hold on, let's do that properly. Let's try and put a bit of energy into it. The simple solutions, of things like, right, we're going to do this next one, we're going to give you a cup of coffee and we're going to make you stand up. Because I need the energy that we had for the first five chapters. So I can't work out the narrative. The narration certainly affected my reception of the book. I'm just trying to work out was it the fact that the subject matter got bored or that he lost energy, or is it a combination of the two?

Steve Phillips: for me, it sounded. He. It sounded like just someone giving some very, very bad news over the course of 11 hours, in one tone, just very solemnly, just declaring the facts. That was. Was. That's what it felt like. Very slowly, deliberately, just telling facts over, you know, you know, just. Just a. As though he's got, like a giant book that he's about to slam shut at the end of the. At the end of the. Of the audiobook.

Matthew Layton: Do you know what you have? You're absolutely right. and I recorded a clip. The way this book was made, clearly there was a lot of emphasis on the journalistic integrity. And we know there were 3,000 people approached, 300 spoke to him. I started to realise that actually, maybe the author's writing isn't interesting. Maybe it's the people he's quoting that are the good bits. And I actually, for the first time in my life, and this is about to happen to you for the first time, I assume, I thought about the research process, because he quotes a book that you And I have actually read.

Speaker C: Andrew is awkward in company, finds it hard to relate to people and has few friends. He rarely reads, preferring camera manuals or mindless videos such as Terminator. His ex wife described him as an intellectual zombie. Apart from golf and making money, Andrew had a special fascination with special forces and the intelligence services. Author Ben McIntyre writes of how the Duke at the height of the 1980 Iranian embassy siege.

Steve Phillips: Oh, yes, of course, the siege ordered.

Speaker C: His protection officer to contact siege police commander John Dellow, saying he would like to visit for lunch. According to MacIntyre, the last thing Dello needed at this delicate moment was a princeling and his entourage in the building standing around asking questions and eating sandwiches. The young, royal wished to be where the action was and he was used to getting what he wanted. The request was refused.

Matthew Layton: So it's just really weird and this is just a thing that's freaked me out, socially is. Oh, yeah, I've read that book. and the idea that I have read a book that is a source for somebody who's setting out to create something of, you know, academic and journalistic integrity, it's like, no, mate, I've read that book. I know exactly what you've done there. You've searched control and F. Andrew copy and indeed paste.

Steve Phillips: Yes.

We've reviewed two Ben McIntyre books on this programme

Matthew Layton: So we, we, we, we reviewed the siege, didn't we?

Steve Phillips: Yeah, we did.

Matthew Layton: We did, didn't we?

Steve Phillips: Did.

Matthew Layton: We've reviewed two Ben McIntyre books on this programme. And you know what? That also made me realise that's who I wish had written this book.

Steve Phillips: Yeah.

Matthew Layton: At the end it gets really scrappy and he's. Once he's gone beyond the financial stuff, the integrity stuff and the Epstein stuff, suddenly we find ourselves getting a list of quotes from other people that are describing him and they don't match, they form no cohesive narrative and they contradict each other. And I just go, oh, no, sorry. I want Ben McIntyre to do this.

Steve Phillips: Yeah, I mean, well, Ben McIntyre, any of his books, you know, he really just brings this stuff to life. But I don't know this, I mean, I don't think he'd do this sort of stuff, to be fair. I think he just really, he really brings sort of extraordinary events and periods of life, really to life, you know that. I mean, yeah, I much rather listen to the story of Colditz or the siege than, than, than about, about, the subject of this book, to be fair.

Matthew Layton: Okay, I'm going to disagree with you slightly, but only very slightly. And that is, if you walk into this Book with the expectation of a vivid picture of the prince's early childhood, London in the 1980s, royal, weddings. Toss at it, then read this book until about part six and then put it down before it leaves you with the. What is probably to the author the important bit, which is evidence that it's properly researched. but I think both of us, I'm so glad when you at the top of the show said it's a list.

Steve Phillips: Yeah, it is completely.

Matthew Layton: Oh yeah, it's a list. It's a list of lists.

Steve Phillips: It is, it is.

Matthew Layton: but, but there is good stuff in there. You know how Audible sometimes do that thing where you can get two books for one credit. Maybe wait till that comes along and come and visit Steven Matt's audiobook Garage where we cut and shut, audiobooks. You do the first half, this book and then the second half of a book that is yet to be found. So Vauxhall Courser at the front, Ford Mondeo at the back. Does that make sense?

Steve Phillips: That sounds like my perfect car. well, let's wrap this one up, you know, because I think, to be honest, I think, yeah, even, even talking about the whole listing and the way it sort of just sort of withers away at the end.

Let's, let's let our listeners know what we're doing next week

Let's, let's let our listeners know what we're doing next week. And and you know, just getting, getting G'd up again. Eh.

Matthew Layton: Have you gone that far down the script? Do you know what we're doing next week?

Steve Phillips: Yeah, I am totally on that. Can I. Do you want to read it out? Do you want to go, go.

Next week's book as we record it was released today

Matthew Layton: Well, we're going back to where we started. we are back to the one, the first, the author of the first book we ever reviewed. This is going to hurt. Adam Kay has apparently done, a murder mystery, famously our first also ever interaction on social media. We said it must be quite hard recording an audiobook. And he came back to us, he contributed. He did, he said yes, it was a bit of a faff. So, yeah, I, don't know what's gonna be like. He's a great author. Also walking into my favourite genre, as you pointed out, the murder mystery. yes, we'll do that next week. Give us the details, Steve.

Steve Phillips: And ah, next week's book as we record it was released today, so it's hot off the hot of the streaming press really. A particularly nasty case by Adam Kay. This one is read by Andy Serkis. So really looking forward to this one. Looking forward.

Matthew Layton: That's gotta be good.

Steve Phillips: yes. Out 28th of August. It's 10 hours, nine minutes long. It's by Orion, the publisher. And, that's what we're doing next week, so. I've already downloaded that. I downloaded it during a lull in the list, I think one of the clips you just played. I thought, download next week's book, Will. I mean, yeah, totally.

Matthew Layton: So, yeah, it's difficult when you're describing something boring not to become a raging boy yourself. And I already had a head start, so. Yeah, you were listening to something else while I, was doing the podcast. This is not the first time.

Steve Phillips: No, no, no, no. While you. While you were playing one of the clips of our author we've been reviewing this week. Not yourself, of course. Of course. Matt, of course.

Matthew Layton: You're always locked on when I'm talking. Are, you.

Steve Phillips: Of course, dear listener, if you disagree with what I just said, then do feel free to get in touch via our socials. We're on BlueSky at AudioBookShow. Same for Instagram as well. let us know what you're reading and if you have. Also, as we record. Obviously, we won't be putting it out till next week, but, if you're gonna download a particularly nasty case, this is the first novel from Adam Kay, narrated by Andy Serkis. Then let us know what you think for next week's, show. And, we look forward to seeing you then. Oh, it's great to be back and getting our teeth into some literary classics of the future.

Matthew Layton: I. I'm. I'm raring to go. My pencils are sharpened and my pencil case is polished.

Steve Phillips: I can see you've been doing that quite vigorously.

Matthew Layton: The under nanny did it.

Matthew Layton: Andrew was partly brought up by the under nanny

That was an interesting thing up for this book, the under Nanny, Partly brought up by the. The under nanny.

Steve Phillips: What?

Matthew Layton: So you know the thing with. Yeah, the royals have these. I can't remember what the. The queen's nanny was like Miffy or. Or M. Momsy or something. Andrew's head nanny was, called Mamba. but he was mainly brought up by the under nanny.

Steve Phillips: The under nanny. Oh, man.

Matthew Layton: we didn't. We didn't mention spare once during this.

Steve Phillips: No, no, I couldn't even do that.

Matthew Layton: Yeah, you. I was interested that you. You didn't want to read that. But were you suggested reading this? So. Yeah, that. That.

Steve Phillips: Well, yeah, I mean, this one. This one is because he's. He's always. And he's always in the. You kind of.

Matthew Layton: Yeah, I think it's. You like history I think that's what it is.

Steve Phillips: I like history.

Matthew Layton: This is a. Ah, you don't like. You don't like the present. You never have.

Steve Phillips: I can't let go of the past, no matter how grizzly it may have been at times. but, yeah, let's. Let's, let's change. Let's change tack. I've heard enough about this one. Let's go in for. Let's go for a bit of Adam K and particularly Nasty Case. Looking forward to that next week. Matt, thanks for your insights as ever.

Matthew Layton: thank. Thank you. Putting up with me. Loved it.

Steve Phillips: I think. Good stuff. And we'll see you all next week.

Matthew Layton: Audiobook Club with Steve Phillips and Matthew Layton.